Very important work. You've produced another article that is just indispenible as we continue to think about Dylan and his art. The Book Club just did a session on John Bauldie, so it was great to see his work pop up here, as well. One of the traits that puts you in the top tier of Dylanologists is the thoroughness and painstakingness of your research.
I'm glad to hear that this one resonated so strongly with you, Peter. Dylan Studies wouldn't be what it is today without the seminal work of Bauldie, Cartwright, and the other first wave Dylanologists, some of whom are still active today. I'm happy to pay my respects and advance the ball forward by drawing more attention to their accomplishments, on and off the page.
Great stuff. Great research. As a teenager, I loved those Jonathan Cott interviews in RS, they showed that Dylan was working with ideas way beyond any other musical artist. Mostly the conversation was about Street Legal and Renaldo and Clara, some very mystical and intellectual stuff, Cott was a great interviewer. (His book about children’s lit is fascinating.) Seems like Bob was still working through the ideas he got from studying under Raeben a few years earlier. We know where he went from there. He lost his mind! And found Jesus. Reading this, and Padgett’s recent interviews about Shadow Kingdom, show how much is factually hidden from our first takes on Dylan’s music. And he wants it to stay secret, at least for a while. It’s cool to find all this out later but I’m also remembering that the 16 year old boy who heard “Idiot Wind” coming through the tinny speaker of his black and white TV on the “Hard Rain” broadcast didn’t know a thing about Norman Raeben but he knew exactly what that beautiful man with the intense eyes in the white head-wrap was singing about. A powerful message from elsewhere about phony reality. Nothing beats that first take, when your whole life is at stake.
Thanks for taking us back to your first reactions to Dylan as a teen, Steven. You're right on both counts. It's fascinating to do research and uncover the layers of mystery embedded in Dylan's work. Kudos to Ray's revealing Shadow Kingdom interviews for doing just that. But nothing beats that visceral gut reaction that makes you feel connected to Dylan's music on an intuitive level that can't be intellectualized.
A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying--everything!
Thanks from me, too, Stephen. Coincidentally, I just received a response from Nigel Hinton to my own last Substack and after some positive comments, he then wrote: "but the immediate, visceral experience of the song is what counts". I replied that he was right, of course, and i whole-heartedly agreed. As I do with you both here, making the same point - even the vocabulary was the same. And, like Stephen,my reply to Nigel told of my 16 year old self listening to Bob, too.
Wow, Graley, this is great! Thank you so much for sharing some information about Bert Cartwright and the extraordinary life he has lived. I'm so glad that you went down this rabbit hole and that you were allowed to share your findings (I agree, it's how it should be). I got a real kick out of the correspondence between Dylanologists, it really gives you a look into the tangible work that was required in the pre-internet days. But of course, as you knew, the Cott interview outtakes are particularly special for me, as this is an interview I have poured over so many times. In fact, don't be surprised if some of this makes it into my Tulsa paper. I look forward to discussing this all some more next week!
I knew you would dig this one, Laura! Isn't it cool to peek into those letters? Texts and emails are convenient, but it's a shame that hardcopy letters are a thing of the past. Even the letterhead gives me a nerdy thrill. Please feel free to use whatever you like. Can't wait to pull up a barstool in a Tulsa and talk it over some more. See you soon!
What a fine dive, Graley, impressive of course and instructional for those of us immersed in archival research. Just to prove I read until the very end, I noted with interest the anecdote about the Dylan archives denying the use of material in an essay. I'd love to know more. In my experience there, I was told not to scan certain (or all) materials, though I could take notes. If I recall correctly, nothing was said about requiring permission to publish, although I'm sure there's some boilerplate to that effect. See you soon.
My goodness, Graley, you have excelled yourself here. Top class Shadow Chasing and it takes me back on a trip to earlier times in Dylan fandom.
Just great, great stuff and that 1978 interview keeps on giving. It is the basis for one of my next articles, too - I must remember and link back to you here. Totally different subject, but it is always nice to make links across Substack
My deep thanks for your kind words, Andy. I agree about the Cott interview and can't wait to see what you do with it.
On a different note, it was difficult finding photos of Bert Cartwright, and I thought about reaching out to you and your network of connections for something from his Dylan years. But I decided that I didn't want to ruin the surprise. If you come across anything, however, I'd love to see it and might even retrofit it into the article.
This is fabulous. As well as giving us priceless background on Dylan’s relationship with Norman Raeben, there’s also the courage of Bert Cartwright connecting us to the Little Rock Nine in 1957. Reading your essay led me to look at Elizabeth Eckford’s entry in Wikipedia. In many ways it’s a distressing story, but one appreciates the guts of Cartwright, and of Eckford herself.
Very much appreciated, Mick. I agree with you: Eckford is a bona fide hero. It's fascinating to learn how she eventually came to have a relationship with Hazel Bryan, the woman pictured yelling at her in the notorious photo. But the rapprochement was short-lived; just too much turbulent water underneath that shaky bridge. Eckford and the other members of the Little Rock Nine were courageous, and it took guts from Cartwright, too, to take such an outspoken public stance of support during those dangerous times.
Fantastic piece, Graley - thank you for writing and sharing this.
For those interested in Normal Raeben, I recommend Carolyn Schlam's "The Creative Path." Carolyn also studied painting under Raeben and recalls that time fondly, including classes with Dylan:
"We subsequently chuckled when Norman, even after being informed of Dylan’s pedigree, continued to speak to him as casually and emphatically as to the rest of us. He called Bob Dylan “an idiot” and I was there to hear it! He sent him down to get coffee for us, which was a regular assignment for the rest of us. But this was Norman and he was not easily impressed by anything other than excellence, and good students following his direction to the letter.”
The book is Schlam's meditation on creativity but includes six transcribed lectures from Raeben himself. That's probably as close as we can get to understanding his power as a teacher and pull on Dylan.
Thanks, James! I wholeheartedly agree about Schlam's excellent book. I didn't find it until after I had already written my earlier piece on Raeben. But I've since read it and love it. I have multiple quotes from her planned for my talk in Tulsa.
Very important work. You've produced another article that is just indispenible as we continue to think about Dylan and his art. The Book Club just did a session on John Bauldie, so it was great to see his work pop up here, as well. One of the traits that puts you in the top tier of Dylanologists is the thoroughness and painstakingness of your research.
I'm glad to hear that this one resonated so strongly with you, Peter. Dylan Studies wouldn't be what it is today without the seminal work of Bauldie, Cartwright, and the other first wave Dylanologists, some of whom are still active today. I'm happy to pay my respects and advance the ball forward by drawing more attention to their accomplishments, on and off the page.
Great stuff. Great research. As a teenager, I loved those Jonathan Cott interviews in RS, they showed that Dylan was working with ideas way beyond any other musical artist. Mostly the conversation was about Street Legal and Renaldo and Clara, some very mystical and intellectual stuff, Cott was a great interviewer. (His book about children’s lit is fascinating.) Seems like Bob was still working through the ideas he got from studying under Raeben a few years earlier. We know where he went from there. He lost his mind! And found Jesus. Reading this, and Padgett’s recent interviews about Shadow Kingdom, show how much is factually hidden from our first takes on Dylan’s music. And he wants it to stay secret, at least for a while. It’s cool to find all this out later but I’m also remembering that the 16 year old boy who heard “Idiot Wind” coming through the tinny speaker of his black and white TV on the “Hard Rain” broadcast didn’t know a thing about Norman Raeben but he knew exactly what that beautiful man with the intense eyes in the white head-wrap was singing about. A powerful message from elsewhere about phony reality. Nothing beats that first take, when your whole life is at stake.
We’re idiots, babe
It’s a wonder we can even feed ourselves
Thanks for taking us back to your first reactions to Dylan as a teen, Steven. You're right on both counts. It's fascinating to do research and uncover the layers of mystery embedded in Dylan's work. Kudos to Ray's revealing Shadow Kingdom interviews for doing just that. But nothing beats that visceral gut reaction that makes you feel connected to Dylan's music on an intuitive level that can't be intellectualized.
A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying--everything!
Thanks from me, too, Stephen. Coincidentally, I just received a response from Nigel Hinton to my own last Substack and after some positive comments, he then wrote: "but the immediate, visceral experience of the song is what counts". I replied that he was right, of course, and i whole-heartedly agreed. As I do with you both here, making the same point - even the vocabulary was the same. And, like Stephen,my reply to Nigel told of my 16 year old self listening to Bob, too.
Wow, Graley, this is great! Thank you so much for sharing some information about Bert Cartwright and the extraordinary life he has lived. I'm so glad that you went down this rabbit hole and that you were allowed to share your findings (I agree, it's how it should be). I got a real kick out of the correspondence between Dylanologists, it really gives you a look into the tangible work that was required in the pre-internet days. But of course, as you knew, the Cott interview outtakes are particularly special for me, as this is an interview I have poured over so many times. In fact, don't be surprised if some of this makes it into my Tulsa paper. I look forward to discussing this all some more next week!
I knew you would dig this one, Laura! Isn't it cool to peek into those letters? Texts and emails are convenient, but it's a shame that hardcopy letters are a thing of the past. Even the letterhead gives me a nerdy thrill. Please feel free to use whatever you like. Can't wait to pull up a barstool in a Tulsa and talk it over some more. See you soon!
What a fine dive, Graley, impressive of course and instructional for those of us immersed in archival research. Just to prove I read until the very end, I noted with interest the anecdote about the Dylan archives denying the use of material in an essay. I'd love to know more. In my experience there, I was told not to scan certain (or all) materials, though I could take notes. If I recall correctly, nothing was said about requiring permission to publish, although I'm sure there's some boilerplate to that effect. See you soon.
Thanks, Steve! As for the rest, I'll talk it rather than type it since I'll be seeing you later this week. Safe travels to Tulsa!
My goodness, Graley, you have excelled yourself here. Top class Shadow Chasing and it takes me back on a trip to earlier times in Dylan fandom.
Just great, great stuff and that 1978 interview keeps on giving. It is the basis for one of my next articles, too - I must remember and link back to you here. Totally different subject, but it is always nice to make links across Substack
My deep thanks for your kind words, Andy. I agree about the Cott interview and can't wait to see what you do with it.
On a different note, it was difficult finding photos of Bert Cartwright, and I thought about reaching out to you and your network of connections for something from his Dylan years. But I decided that I didn't want to ruin the surprise. If you come across anything, however, I'd love to see it and might even retrofit it into the article.
That was very thoughtful of you and is much appreciated.
OK, I will hunt around the filing cabinets when I get a chance to do so.
This is fabulous. As well as giving us priceless background on Dylan’s relationship with Norman Raeben, there’s also the courage of Bert Cartwright connecting us to the Little Rock Nine in 1957. Reading your essay led me to look at Elizabeth Eckford’s entry in Wikipedia. In many ways it’s a distressing story, but one appreciates the guts of Cartwright, and of Eckford herself.
Very much appreciated, Mick. I agree with you: Eckford is a bona fide hero. It's fascinating to learn how she eventually came to have a relationship with Hazel Bryan, the woman pictured yelling at her in the notorious photo. But the rapprochement was short-lived; just too much turbulent water underneath that shaky bridge. Eckford and the other members of the Little Rock Nine were courageous, and it took guts from Cartwright, too, to take such an outspoken public stance of support during those dangerous times.
Many thanks for sharing your meticulous research. You sent me back down several rabbit holes - Cartwright, Raeben, Bauldie, Gray… .
Gerald Smith, DYLAN BOOKS
Fantastic piece, Graley - thank you for writing and sharing this.
For those interested in Normal Raeben, I recommend Carolyn Schlam's "The Creative Path." Carolyn also studied painting under Raeben and recalls that time fondly, including classes with Dylan:
"We subsequently chuckled when Norman, even after being informed of Dylan’s pedigree, continued to speak to him as casually and emphatically as to the rest of us. He called Bob Dylan “an idiot” and I was there to hear it! He sent him down to get coffee for us, which was a regular assignment for the rest of us. But this was Norman and he was not easily impressed by anything other than excellence, and good students following his direction to the letter.”
The book is Schlam's meditation on creativity but includes six transcribed lectures from Raeben himself. That's probably as close as we can get to understanding his power as a teacher and pull on Dylan.
Have a blast at WOBD '25!
Thanks, James! I wholeheartedly agree about Schlam's excellent book. I didn't find it until after I had already written my earlier piece on Raeben. But I've since read it and love it. I have multiple quotes from her planned for my talk in Tulsa.
Absolutely fascinating. I feel like a detective unraveling a case while reading. So good!
That's great to hear--I'm so glad you enjoyed it, Klops!